Published 20250602 ….. Revised 20250828
Is there a Pre Tribulation RAPTURE?
Please note that I am NOT trying to say that the bible is full of lies!!
But in a previous talk I have already covered some biblical "hiccups"
which I have called "lies in the bible". In which I talked about
various scriptures regarding the throne of David. I addressed the issue that
CLEARLY, according to scriptures David MUST have, in our present time, one of
his defendants still sitting on his throne.
But in this talk, I would like to address the issue of a "Supposed Pre
Tribulation Rapture"?
Firstly, what is the accepted theory of the events concerning the "Pre
Tribulation rapture?
They are as follows..
1. The dead in Christ rise first.
2. We who are still alive, (Christians), also rise.
3. And we all meet the Lord in the air.
(This is all clearly explained in 1 Thess 4 versus 16 and 17.)
4. The Holy Spirit is taken out of the world.
Because according to some theologians: When the pre tribulation rapture
happens, the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world. They refer to this passage
in 2 Thess 2 :7 - 8 "until he.. (the Holy Spirit).. be taken out
of the way. vs 8 And then shall that Wicked be
revealed." (The antichrist)!
Which gives credence to the idea that after the rapture the antichrist then
comes to power. Also, he is not restrained by the Holy Spirit, so he has free
reign on earth to bring in his evil kingdom. Then bring in his identifying mark
in your right hand or in your forehead. He makes war with the Saints, and he
rules for seven years. Refer Revelation 13
If we now assume these four points as listed above are the correct
interpretation of scripture, what happens immediately after the pre tribe
rapture; and before the antichrist comes to power?
Just imagine this! The rapture has happened late last week. You have seen 'The
Rapture' reported on the News; it's all on the radio, Facebook, U-tube and all
sorts of media. But when you try to show your friends what has happened, all
media 'links' and any record of the rapture has been deleted! A HUGE Cover-up!
You meet your friends at church; and let's say 60% of them are gone? But you
are all Christians and for some reason you have all been "left
behind"! WHY? What on earth are you going to do?
The very first thing I think you and your friends would do, would be to start
reading the bible to trying to find out where you all got it wrong! Most
probably you would meticulously study the New Testament. But you would soon
discover to your horror that numerous passages make no sense at all! In fact
when you read some verses of the bible, (in the light of the fact that you have
been left behind); then some passages could only be described as Lies.
For example, when you read Hebrews 13 :5. "He will Never leave
you nor forsake you". If you have been left behind after
the rapture. And you read that. Then to you that passage is a LIE. For you
have been LEFT and Forsaken and give over by Christ to the clutches of the
antichrist!!
But the other BIG issue which you would probably never comprehend.. is that
with the Holy Spirit removed from the world, the Holy Spirit is no longer with
you to lead you through the scriptures. Refer Joh 16 :13 "Howbeit when he,
the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he
speak: and he will shew you things to come." So if
the Holy Spirit is not in the world or in you what hope have you got to
understand the scriptures?
Or as that verse is says. how could you even hear anything from the Holy Spirit?
Without the Holy Spirit you would have as much understanding of the scriptures
as Satan does! It is said that if Satan had understood the Word of God he would
never have crucified The Lord of Glory.
But We've Been Left Behind!!
Let's pretend we have been left behind, and let's do some word searches
and find some of these scriptures that would make no sense or have even become
LIES! We can use words like; forever, truth, spirit ang gift etc. I'll give you
a few that I have found just to get you started.
Some complete chapters are quite interesting. For example Jesus telling his
disciples of the Comforter in John chapters 14, 15 and 16. Or Paul speaking of the
Gifts of The Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians chapters 12 and 14. Some scriptures may
not appear to be so obviously wrong, (that is in the light of a pre tribe
rapture). So I have added a short note to indicate why I have flagged it.
Mat 28:20 KJV Teaching them to observe all things
whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the
end of the world. Amen.
Luk 11 :13 KJV If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask
him?
(Ask all you like but the Holy Spirit will not be given to you!)
Joh 14 :17 KJV Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because
it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with
you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14 :21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that
loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love
him, and will manifest myself to him.
(Why would Christ wast his time with you if he chose to leave and forsake you?)
Joh 14 :23 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep
my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our
abode with him.
Joh 14 :26 KJV But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will
send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15 :26 KJV But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from
the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he
shall testify of me:
Joh 16 :7 KJV Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I
go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I
depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16 :8 KJV And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:
(Therefore, NONE of these things listed below will happen if the Holy Spirit is
removed from the world!)
Joh 16 :9 KJV Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16 :10 KJV Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no
more;
Joh 16 :11 KJV Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Joh 16 :13 KJV Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you
into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall
hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16 :14 KJV He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall
shew it unto you.
Joh 16 :15 KJV All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that
he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. vs :16 KJV And I will pray
the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you
for ever;
Rom 1 :11 KJV For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual
gift, to the end ye may be established;
1Co 12: 1 KJV Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you
ignorant.
1Co 12 :3 KJV Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the
Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the
Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12 : 4 KJV Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12 :7 KJV But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to
profit withal.
1Co 12 :8 KJV For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another
the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12 :9 KJV To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of
healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12 :10 KJV To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to
another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another
the interpretation of tongues:
(There could be no true prophecy without the leading of the Holy Spirit!)
1Co 12 :11 KJV But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing
to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12 :13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we
be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to
drink into one Spirit.
(So it is the Holy Spirit that baptizes you into the body of Christ. THEREFORE
No one could possibly be saved during the Great Tribulation!!)
1Co 14 :1 KJV Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that
ye may prophesy.
1Co 14 :12 KJV Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek
that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14 :25 KJV And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so
falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of
a truth.
(This can't happen without the Holy Spirit showing you the secrets?)
Eph 1 :13 KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were
sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Col 1 :5 KJV For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard
before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
(Buy this stage the bible is so full of LIES! Why would you call it.. "the
word of the truth"??)
Col 1 :6 KJV Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth
forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the
grace of God in truth:
("the word of the truth"??)
1Th 2 :13 KJV For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when
ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the
word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh
also in you that believe.
("the word of the truth"??)
2Th 2 :13 KJV But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren
beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to
salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
("the word of the truth"??)
1Jn 2 :27 KJV But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you
of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye
shall abide in him.
Summing Up
We all know that the Word of God IS Truth! Therefore these passages listed above CAN NOT be LIES! So the only logically conclusion is that the originally "accepted theory of the events", as above was an incorrect interpretation! And is wrong in someway! The "first three points" are clearly supported with 1 Thess 4 :16-17. The "forth point" must therefore be wrong.!
So the interpretation of 2 Thess 2 :7-8 must be wrong? This will really open up
a can of worms for us! Because the interpretation we used comes from the
futurist interpretation which is the most commonly used interpretation and the
most popular. If you try to explain 2 Thess 2 :7-8 from the historic point of
view.. you usually get howled down and/or laughed at!
So let's read that passage in detail and back up a bit and start with verse 6.
2Th 2 :6-8 MKJV1962 6 "And now you know what holds back, for him to be
revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already working,
only he [is] now holding back until it comes out of the] midst. 8 And then the
lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of
His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming,"
The futurist view claims this is describing the Holy Spirit holding back the
antichrist until the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world? We have already
worked out, that can't be a correct interpretation. Also there are a number
issues wrong with that idea!
1. The apostle Paul has no need to use "vailed" speech to conveying
to the read he is speaking of the Holy Spirit! Why wouldn't Paul simply say..
"the Holy Spirit is currently holding back the antichrist!"
2. The Holy Spirit is addressed as a..
"What.. he and it "? The Holy Spirit is never
referred to that way. He is always described as a person.. such as, 'He or
His'!
3. The Pre Trib Rapture theory effectively claims The Lord comes in two stages.
He first comes at the Rapture. And they often use all the verses which use the
word "parousia.. word number G3952". Which is translated into English
as "coming". But when he comes at the rapture it's not His second
coming! (He comes but he doesn't come?). The second time Christ comes; (AGAIN),
is at his Second Advent. So they places the antichrist's appearance AFTER the
Lord comes at the rapture! Followed 7 years later by the "coming of The
Lord".
Where as Paul clearly says in 2 Thess 2 vs 1 & 3 the Lord CAN'T come in any
way shape or form, until the antichrist FIRST appears!
2Th 2 :1-3 MKJV1962 1 "...with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ and our gathering together to Him, ... 3 ..For [that Day shall not come]
unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed,
the son of perdition,"
4. The other issue with 2 Thess 2 :3 is that some "biblical schoolers"
claim that the phrase "falling away" means a departure! Inferring it is speaking of the rapture!
Whereas if you go to Thayers or Strongs Definition, "a falling away" (is word number G646 apostasia Thayer Definition: 1) a falling away, defection, defection from truth, apostasy." This could hardly be interpreted as a departure!
Which I think is pretty daft logic. Because if you read 2 Thess 2 :1 - 3; KJV 1
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and
by our gathering together unto him, .. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,.."
You are virtually saying Paul is telling the Thessalonians that the
"gathering together", (the rapture), shall not come unless the
"falling away", (the rapture), happens first!!?
So if the antichrist comes first what is the, "what.. he and it"?
Which is holding back the antichrist? Well the 'Historic Interpretation' has
always said Paul was referring to the Roman Empire and the Caesar's. Hence his
use of veiled speech. Could you imagine the consequence if Paul said..
"The Roman Empire is currently holding back the antichrist. When it is
removed, then the antichrist will come to power!" It would be a death
sentence to any Christian with that letter in their possession!
Conclusion
Is the antichrist already here? And are we already going through the "Great Tribulation"? If so then the word Greet must inferring a LONG period of time. Which makes sense if you read "The Fine Print" in Revelation!!! After all Revelation is where we find all the information about the Great Tribulation. Read the fine print...
Rev 1 :1-3 MKJV1962 1 A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to
declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass....
3 Blessed [is] the [one] who reads and hears the words of this
prophecy... for the time [is] near." Then go to..
Rev 22 :6 "to show to His servants the things which must shortly be
done.
vs :10 Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time
is at hand."
So there is NO Need for a RAPTURE, to get us out before the Tribulation Starts!
BECAUSE we are already GOING THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION!! And we are
currently all waiting for ONLY ONE Second Coming of The Lord. At which time the
Lord shall destroy the antichrist, "
2Th 2 :8 KJV "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall
consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of
his coming:"
Hope you liked that! It's a happier ending than living in fear that you might
get LEFT BEHIND!